Malygos Stomped… Again

Threat still an issue.

So, I’m trying to wrap my mind around this. On my screen, I have Omen tucked nicely underneath my character’s tiger toes and above my orderly block of ‘Oh Sh*t’ buttons. It’s right there, front and center, I’m keeping an eye on it ALL THE TIME.

Just this week, however, I’ve been noticing that our dps have been creeping up closer and closer to the threshold I set for threat. I saw this on Anub’Rekhan, on Malygos 10-man, Grand Widow Faerlina, Patchwerk, and now again on Malygos 25-man.

I guess it’s to be expected during Malygos. After all, ranged casters can still explode things during the vortex with instant-cast spells. Even though I’m always mashing my attack rotation (242342348234234238423423), I’m also always getting ‘out of range’ errors. Suffice to say, no threat is being generated.

Things in this fight are compounded by the fact that I must be CONSTANTLY vigilant about where the sparks are coming from. We cluster our raid in the center of his platform and it’s my job to make sure the raid is always between the source of the sparks and Malygos. So what would normally be a ‘sit and generate gobs of threat’ encounter, is turned into a kite-scramble while waddling backwards, fretting about the random dps or healer that’s standing where I want to go and still trying to stay ahead of the dps on threat.

It’s certainly a challenge (and one I rather enjoy).

So yes, on Malygos, these issues are expected. But what about Anub’Rekhan, Grand Widow, and Patchwerk? Those are most definitely ‘sit and piss off the boss’ fights.

I’m wondering, has anybody else noticed a more difficult time staying ahead on threat? I never really payed attention to my actual Threat Per Second, I only kept an eye on the general size of the gap between my threat and that of the DPS.

That gap, within the past two weeks, has closed alarmingly fast.

Of course, this could all be a result of my almost insta-epic experience, one compounded by my status as not only a Barfly, but one of two physical leather-weareres and being a tank. (perfect storm here for loot to fall like rain). It could be a case of me getting the best of the best early on and now that the DPS are getting their hard-earned epics they’re starting to encroach on my ‘huuuuuuge tracks of [aggro] land’.

*ahem*

But I don’t think our dps has increased all that signifigantly within proportion.

Which once again leads me to wonder…

what’s wrong with my threat?

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  • Comments (8)
    • Kal
    • February 26th, 2009

    Maybe nothing’s wrong, and it’s your DPS, but there are some things to think about.

    Are you mauling at all times? No matter what?
    Are you mangling whenever it’s up (I’m guessing that ‘3’ is mangle from the above)?
    Are you maintaining a 5-stack of lacerate and swiping otherwise?
    On fights where the stack regularly drops off, are you lacerating the minimum amount you possibly can?
    Are you using Faerie fire when you can? (it’s better threat than lacerate or swipe)
    Are you using berserk early?
    Are you gemming/enchanting primarily for stam or for agi?

  1. The threat issue is actually perplexing, because I really haven’t had any issues with it unless DPS literally started before I even hit the mob. To better help you try and evaluate (without me actually seeing you play), I’d start by asking a few questions:

    1) Are you soft-Expertise capped? Hit capped? Close to it? I’m certainly not hit-capped or anywhere close to it in bear gear, but I’m definitely over the 6.5% soft-Expertise cap. Expertise is probably the single greatest threat stat for bears, and if you’re way below the mark on that, you could start from there.

    2) Secondly, what’s your rotation looking like? Stacking Lacerate is awesome, but if you’re trying to start out with that, you’re going to be in trouble. Mangle is still pretty key for snapping aggro, and with threat changes to Swipe, you can pretty much spam the shit out of that and not do too poorly.

    3) Do you have a Rogue in your raid group? If you do, and that Rogue isn’t using Tricks of the Trade, tell him/her that he/she blows at life. Tricks of the Trade is essentially a Misdirect that can refresh every 30 seconds. It transfers 6 seconds worth of threat from Mr. Rogue to you, and it boosts your damage by 15% in the meantime. Free threat.

    4) Are you using Berserk early on?

    5) Are you using Enrage whenever it comes up, regardless of how much Rage you’ve got? It’s a temporary armor reduction, but if you’re rocking KotJ, you’re also getting a 15% damage boost that can boost your threat as well.

    6) Do you have 5/5 R&T? Presumably, if you’re a Druid and you’re doing all the shit you’re supposed to be doing, your target is going to be bleeding. Maul is a huge threat dump, and 5/5 R&T is going to increase that damage.

    7) Do you have 3/3 Feral Instinct? No one really gives a shit about being detected while prowling, but since Swipe is such a big part of our Bear rotation now, there’s really no reason why you WOULDN’T want 30% more damage from it.

    See if any of that applies and/or helps.

  2. Okay, a few other things. In the gear you have, there’s really no reason why you can’t switch over the Idol of Perspicacious Attacks. It’s attainable via Venture Coins, and considering I got this idol way back when I was still leveling Runy, it should be pretty cake to pick up through the PVP dailies in Grizzly Hills. It’s a flat out Maul/Swipe damage increase, and while I normally only use it for trash, you could certainly use it on bosses.

    Additionally, I’d try out this build or something like it:
    http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=0ZxGGsfrzceRchuqobA0z

    It’s not pimped out for Cat DPS, obviously, but even in my shit-ass gear, I can do upwards of 3500 DPS during most single-target encounters (assuming standard raid buffs, etc.).

    • Tigerfeet
    • February 26th, 2009

    Thank you two so much for your help!

    Runy – I’m assuming you went and took a look at my gear then, so yes, I’ve been gemming for strength. I’m nowhere near hitcapped, but I am way over the expertise soft cap (I think I’m at 12% or so)

    I really like the build you posted. I’ve been meaning to spec out of Feral Aggression for a while now. I use FB maybe twice and I always forget to use Demo Roar. Not taking Infected Wounds makes me nervous though. When I started tanking I was having the worst time staying alive until I specced into IW and it made all the difference. Now, that I’ve got the gear, I probably don’t need it, but it feels like a safety blanket. I’ll probably swap over 3 points from Predatory Instincts into Infected Wounds.

    To itemize your items šŸ˜‰ :

    1) Yes, absolutely on the expertise, I’ve got way too much, been working on replacing expertise with hit actually

    2) 2-Mangle 3-Maul 4-Swipe 5-Lacerate 8-Faerie Fire. I don’t stack Lacerate like I should, I’ve been working towards moving it back into my rotation since I replaced it with swipe

    3) One Rogue, ~3 hunters, I’m getting tricks and Misdirects I’m pretty sure.

    4) I haven’t been too much, but I’ve started, this will be an improvement point.

    5) I was NOT aware of this. My healers won’t be happy, but at least they won’t be dead!

    6) I don’t think so, must respec.

    7) definitely not, must respec. I threw this talent under the bus and didn’t notice the swipe bonus. I think when I built my spec I was still spamming lacerate instead of swipe.

    ——————————

    Kal – I was NOT aware that FFF was so good, so far I’ve just been keeping it up whenever it looks like it’s going to drop off.

    I’m pretty bad about keeping up lacerates, this will have to be improved.

    As far as gemming goes, I was gemmed for stam until abut a month or two ago, now I’m trying to gem more for strength to help with threat and off-dps. Should I instead be focusing more on agility? I think raid-buffed I’m pulling a solid 40% dodge, is this actually too low?

    • Kal
    • February 26th, 2009

    I really can’t get enough of agility. Strength is good, but honestly threat is really the least of my concerns any more. Agility improves threat, rage-starved situations, armor and dodge all in one. And it’s one of the better stats for cat, so your gear can serve two purposes.

    40% dodge is okay, but more dodge is better. šŸ™‚

    Runy’s spec suggestion is very good, especially for maximal use of DPS talent points. If you’re really wanting to keep IW, you can dump the point in imp mangle and the points in ilotp for it. That’s basically what I did, and it worked out very well in both increasing my dps significantly while in cat and being a fine bear. The only issue is the lack of soloing viability without ilotp; it got painful not having mana to shift some times or having to heal every so often. But for raiding, ilotp is pretty superfluous.

    I do think that if you’re tanking a lot by yourself, IW is a no-brainer. It’s a very good talent, especially for 5 and 10 mans or (for instance) when you’re tanking Sarth by your lonesome. Just wish it didn’t get overwritten all the damn time.

  3. I would say that the majority of your problem comes from having a primarily DPS spec, and a lot of the talents that would help your bear threat are missing (Rend and Tear being the big one coming to mind.)

    Even a spec like this (http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=0ZxGGscrzceRcczAo0E0u) (basically 100% bear) can keep up with a lot of DPSers no problem. You won’t be at the top of the lists (or shouldn’t be – I chewed out some of my guild when I was #2 on KT with this spec) but you can still put out good DPS with it. And threat for me isn’t really an issue.

    • Tigerfeet
    • February 26th, 2009

    Kal – What does IW get overwritten by? Is it actually overwritten or does it just not stack? It seems whenever I’m tanking or dpsing I always have 2 stacks on the boss, always. So, if there’s a skill that over-writes it, then it’s not being over-written, but if there’s another (better) buff that it doesn’t stack with well… I just don’t know what it is.

    Myze – Oh no! I’ve got primarily DPS? Eeep, I guess I’ve been doing it wrong all along then, and now that the dps is starting to catch up in gear it shows. I’m glad I’m getting this all ironed out before Ulduar šŸ™‚

  4. While I am dps spec now, I used to be a tank, and while doing some research; I found out the swipe generates way more rage than lacerate. You should definitely keep up 5 stack lacerate, but make sure to swipe if you have the chance of doing that or lace.

    I’m sure you probably know this, just throwing it out there. ^^

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